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	<title>Comments on: clusterflock open thread, 33</title>
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		<title>By: Rick Neece</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267749</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Neece</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267749</guid>
		<description>Hitler was a community organizer, too. But what kind of community did he organize? Pastor Scott, this morning at church, brought us the story of the early days of the Third Reich. Some members of a community, Jews, choosing to stand and fight, in a little town in Poland, rather than stand by, like sheep to the slaughter. While some fled, some fought with the weapons they could find in their kitchens, with what they found along the side of the road. They were slaughtered, while fighting, while fleeing, while folks in the community, some like me and you perhaps, cheered while the slaughter occurred. The story went on telling of a father, Jew, carrying his infant son, wrapped in a pillowcase, running out of the town. In his last moments he pushed the infant into the arms of a by-stander, not knowing what would become of the infant. (OK, the story is manipulative, used in the ways manipulative stories can be brought to bring a reaction. I see that and I&#039;m pretty *bleh* about it.)

However, for me, listening to the story, it brought my own thoughts. I thought I&#039;d likely be sitting at home watching similar things unfold on the news. (As I have) I&#039;d think, &quot;Thank god, that&#039;s not &lt;I&gt;here.&lt;/I&gt; Those things aren&#039;t happening in my neighborhood.&quot; And go to sleep feeling &quot;There&#039;s nothing I can do.&quot;

Crap, I don&#039;t know. If such appeared in my neighborhood, I&#039;d like to think I wouldn&#039;t be part of it. I believe I wouldn&#039;t, but really, when faced with it, what would I do? What could I do? I &lt;I&gt;could&lt;/I&gt; stand.&lt;/I&gt; But in the face of certain slaughter, &lt;I&gt;would&lt;/I&gt; I?

And what do I do with someplace on the planet, &quot;It&#039;s happening.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler was a community organizer, too. But what kind of community did he organize? Pastor Scott, this morning at church, brought us the story of the early days of the Third Reich. Some members of a community, Jews, choosing to stand and fight, in a little town in Poland, rather than stand by, like sheep to the slaughter. While some fled, some fought with the weapons they could find in their kitchens, with what they found along the side of the road. They were slaughtered, while fighting, while fleeing, while folks in the community, some like me and you perhaps, cheered while the slaughter occurred. The story went on telling of a father, Jew, carrying his infant son, wrapped in a pillowcase, running out of the town. In his last moments he pushed the infant into the arms of a by-stander, not knowing what would become of the infant. (OK, the story is manipulative, used in the ways manipulative stories can be brought to bring a reaction. I see that and I&#8217;m pretty *bleh* about it.)</p>
<p>However, for me, listening to the story, it brought my own thoughts. I thought I&#8217;d likely be sitting at home watching similar things unfold on the news. (As I have) I&#8217;d think, &#8220;Thank god, that&#8217;s not <i>here.</i> Those things aren&#8217;t happening in my neighborhood.&#8221; And go to sleep feeling &#8220;There&#8217;s nothing I can do.&#8221;</p>
<p>Crap, I don&#8217;t know. If such appeared in my neighborhood, I&#8217;d like to think I wouldn&#8217;t be part of it. I believe I wouldn&#8217;t, but really, when faced with it, what would I do? What could I do? I <i>could</i> stand. But in the face of certain slaughter, <i>would</i> I?</p>
<p>And what do I do with someplace on the planet, &#8220;It&#8217;s happening.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Dresser</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267747</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Dresser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267747</guid>
		<description>Free markets will make us all rich one day, haven&#039;t you heard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Free markets will make us all rich one day, haven&#8217;t you heard?</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl Scroggins</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267738</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl Scroggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267738</guid>
		<description>There are lots of Americans who hope that their support of McCain will make it appear to all that they make more than $250,000 per year. That&#039;s what they are about, and that&#039;s why when Republicans speak overtly of a strategy that has nothing to do with the facts, these people see nothing unusual about it, and simply assume that useful idiots (many in their own party) will fail to notice the manipulation involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are lots of Americans who hope that their support of McCain will make it appear to all that they make more than $250,000 per year. That&#8217;s what they are about, and that&#8217;s why when Republicans speak overtly of a strategy that has nothing to do with the facts, these people see nothing unusual about it, and simply assume that useful idiots (many in their own party) will fail to notice the manipulation involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Winslow</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267677</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Winslow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267677</guid>
		<description>Me and my friend Joe the Plumber fucking hate socialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me and my friend Joe the Plumber fucking hate socialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Dresser</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267658</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Dresser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267658</guid>
		<description>Just watched &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efv3Vr8T9MA&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the video&lt;/a&gt; of Powell&#039;s endorsement. So well put. Four years with people like this at the helm, and we might just turn this ship around. Hopin&#039; and prayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just watched <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efv3Vr8T9MA" rel="nofollow">the video</a> of Powell&#8217;s endorsement. So well put. Four years with people like this at the helm, and we might just turn this ship around. Hopin&#8217; and prayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sheila Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267607</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheila Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267607</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s how you get acolytes. You organize your . . . community. Whew!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s how you get acolytes. You organize your . . . community. Whew!</p>
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		<title>By: Deron Bauman</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267534</link>
		<dc:creator>Deron Bauman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267534</guid>
		<description>Charles Manson was a community organizer.... &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&amp;address=385x219187&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;can this be real?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles Manson was a community organizer&#8230;. <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&amp;address=385x219187" rel="nofollow">can this be real?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Deron Bauman</title>
		<link>http://www.clusterflock.org/2008/10/clusterflock-open-thread-33.html/comment-page-1#comment-267532</link>
		<dc:creator>Deron Bauman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clusterflock.org/?p=13902#comment-267532</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015262.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Colin Powell&lt;/a&gt;:

We can&#039;t judge our people and hold our elections on that kind of basis. Yes, that kind of negativity troubled me. And the constant shifting of the argument, I was troubled a couple of weeks ago when in the middle of the crisis the campaign said, &#039;We&#039;re going to go negative,&#039; and they announced it. &#039;We&#039;re going to go negative and attack his character through Bill Ayers.&#039; And now I guess the message this week is we&#039;re going to call him a socialist. Mr. Obama is now a socialist, because he dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure that we have. Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay them, in roads and airports and hospitals and schools. And taxes are necessary for the common good. And there&#039;s nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more or who should be paying less, and for us to say that makes you a socialist is an unfortunate characterization that isn&#039;t accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015262.php" rel="nofollow">Colin Powell</a>:</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t judge our people and hold our elections on that kind of basis. Yes, that kind of negativity troubled me. And the constant shifting of the argument, I was troubled a couple of weeks ago when in the middle of the crisis the campaign said, &#8216;We&#8217;re going to go negative,&#8217; and they announced it. &#8216;We&#8217;re going to go negative and attack his character through Bill Ayers.&#8217; And now I guess the message this week is we&#8217;re going to call him a socialist. Mr. Obama is now a socialist, because he dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure that we have. Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay them, in roads and airports and hospitals and schools. And taxes are necessary for the common good. And there&#8217;s nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more or who should be paying less, and for us to say that makes you a socialist is an unfortunate characterization that isn&#8217;t accurate.</p>
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