April 16, 2009
dear clusterflock
What that your parents were denied did they make sure you were not?
What that you were denied did / would you make sure your children had?
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15 Responses to “dear clusterflock”
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What that your parents were denied did they make sure you were not?
What that you were denied did / would you make sure your children had?
15 Responses to “dear clusterflock”
Leave a Reply
I would make sure they could take all the cello lessons and figure skating they wanted. And all the painting/art supplies. And if they needed a math tutor, I’d figure out how to make it happen. And if they accidentally lost their retainer, I’d get them a new one. I’d make sure I had a job where I had dental and health care, so that when they needed to go to the dentist or doctor, it wasn’t even an issue. I’d save my money so they could go to college, and not have to work forty hours a week in addition to taking a full load.
I’m not sure ‘denied’ is the right word, but my parents did not finish college and they made sure I had that opportunity. It wasn’t the fanciest of schools, but it didn’t cost me a dime. The day I left to drive the 95 minutes to my new home my mom told me I had 4 years, that’s what she would pay for. She’d cover my housing for one year, but I had 4 years of schooling paid for. After that, I was on my own. So, I got a part time job (on campus) and made it out in 4 years with no real debt.
As for the Izzy (and any siblings she may or may not have), I’m going to make sure she gets to travel more than I did. I remember having great fun on our family vacations but, because my mom was putting 4 kids through private catholic school and running her own business (and saving for 16 years of college tuition), we never went anywhere we couldn’t get to by car.
You know, people over here are up in arms because of a very politically unpopular idea that is being mooted as a way to cover the financial gaps this recession has opened up: to reinstate college fees. Right now, all college fees are paid by the state, regardless of the income of the parents. Additionally, grants are available to students, on a means tested basis, to help towards their living expenses, and lowish interest student loans are available too. People would consider leaving college with a 20,000 loan – after 4 or 5 years – to be hefty.
If fees are indeed reintroduced, it would be probably on a means tested basis (ie. people earning under 20,000 – 30,000 euros a year would not have to pay them) and even then, the fees would top out at 5,000 euros a year. I find it extraordinary to contrast this with the cost of college fees in the US. And in this fee structure, I’m talking about the major universities, not small makeuppy colleges, or even more vocational colleges.
During college I didn’t have to worry about anything. I didn’t have the newest computer, a fancy-pants apartment, or a shiny BMW, but I didn’t have to worry about anything. I am thankful for that.
What I was denied was more an accident of history than intentional, but you can bet your ass my kids would have a stable home environment when they are going through high school.
I’m not sure of what things my parents were denied, but I know of a few things I was denied and that I’ve vowed to not deny my kids. They are a little silly:
1. We will always have name brand foods. I never had CapriSun or any of the “expensive” foods from the store.
2. My kids will get whatever school supplies they want. I never got a proper Trapper Keeper or the big box of crayons.
3. I want my kids to have a much more stable living environment. We moved around a lot after my mom died and my dad lived with girlfriend after girlfriend.
4. I want to be able to put my kids through college without them having to take out loans.
I also want to have my family travel more than I did growing up. See a lot more places and experience a lot more things.
Reading over that list, 1 and 2 are petty and materialistic, but it’s something that sticks in my head as having a negative effect on my morale growing up.
“What that your parents were denied did they make sure you were not?”
The ability to write a clear sentence?
Deron’s sentence is perfectly clear to me. What isn’t actually clear to me is whether bobfromencino is making an attempt to insult Deron or Deron’s parents.
[...] This is a pretty good conversation, but it was seem to me that this one would be more fun: [...]
Since Bob dropped in without really looking around or pausing to offer an actual response, allow me to provide one for him:
Question one: respect.
Question two: the opportunity to use the slap as a means of communication.
I was also going to explain patiently to Marcia that we’re a community here, that we’re cranky, and that she can just fuck off to perfectly constructed sentence land and find people there to play with. But then you just deleted the comment instead, saving me the bother.
P.S. Just an observation I have to make here: people who have grown children are likely to see these questions in much different ways. This is largely because so many kids think, for the longest time, that it’s all about them. They don’t really pause to think, for instance, about what mom and dad might have done with the time they spent saving for the kids’ college, staying up with them all night when they were sick, and so on–if that time and effort could have been applied to their own hopes for such things as further education, travel, good food, good books…. I think people really have to have a kid before they begin to understand what a thankless job it is–even though the parents are, in the end, to blame for being in such a position. My final point: kids will always cut themselves a Lot more slack than they will cut for thier parents, who are, after all, not really people at all: they are just parents. If you don’t believe me–just have kids. Lots of kids. And then write back to me in 25 years.
How should one respond to these things? That is usually my primary question.
On the one hand, I recognize how the construction of the post might sound stilted to some.
On the other, I said it exactly as I intended.
On the one hand, sometimes it is useful to engage and respond.
On the other, it usually feels like the energy is wasted.
As to the question of the deletion, I have made it abundantly clear to Marcia that her comments are no longer welcome here, but since she continues to frequent, and respond to, a site which she deems beneath her, I would like to state, as clearly as I can, that I deleted at least a half dozen of her comments over the past few years because of meanness or condescension, comments that in no way were necessary or even accurate.
I allowed her that courtesy out of respect for her relationship with my family. I no longer feel that to be necessary.
Anyway, I will allow this to stand as my response to this and future carelessness.
And, to answer my own question:
1. intellectual freedom.
2. sexual freedom.
Deron! I love your answer! Your parents must be fabulous! I can’t wait to meet them.
I remember being denied nothing, except a pair of Beatle Boots just before sixth or seventh grade in late summer just before the start of school, when we were shopping for school clothes. My brother had wornout/outgrown his shoes. I had not. Mom and Dad were being practical, money was limited. He got the Beatle Boots. I got to wear the shoes from the end of the year before.
Such a weird memory to have surface. I remember I cried. Looking back, I’m ashamed. What did I know back then? Not nearly enough about having to choose. Not nearly enough about the world.
Damn, now I want to know what Marcia said…
Daryl – I’m sure you are right… I have no way of knowing the logic employed in some of the decisions my parents made. I suspect some was necessity that I would not have understood or appreciated at the time.
I will say this though. My dad definitely favored my sister in many ways that I deemed unfair. Now, it is possible that my mom favored me and that was his way of trying to balance but she passed away when I was 15 and if that was indeed the case, the balance did not shift back to counter the loss of a parent.
Trying to get back on track with the actual topic. I think my dad (only child)was denied very little. My mom, maybe more based on the attitudes a very catholic mother and a very selfish father. If I should have two or more children, I will try as hard as I can to make sure the scales are balanced between them…
This question is hard to answer while being respectful to the privacy of one of my parents. Put in a general way, I have never feared either of my parents. I’ve been afraid of how they would react to something I did, what they would think of me, or how I would be punished, but I have never feared my parents as my parents or as people.
I am buried in education debt, a fact for which I do not fault my mother. My father, yes, but that’s another story. I financed my education through a combination of work study and loans. What I would like to do for my children is to make them think that they were entirely responsible for the cost of higher education, but at least as high as a bachelor’s degree I’d want to make sure they had no debt at the end.