August 13, 2009
Dear Clusterflock: You forgot to remind me.
I was gonna ask this question a while back, but I asked something else instead. Nobody reminded me about this question but I woke up and I thought about it and I couldn’t sleep without putting it down on paper. Except that by “paper” I mean “the internet.”
Which of the following statements do you identify with? If both, do you feel one more strongly than the other? Describe how you feel about this relationship, or whether you think one exists:
- When things in my life go wrong I wonder what I’ve done wrong.
- When things in my life go well I wonder what I’ve done right.
It is very late at night and my wording is coming off more like some survey than a thoughtful question. I hope you’ll forgive me. Don’t be limited by the wording. Extrapolate, share, grow, embrace, interface… you know, all those things George Carlin wasn’t going to be doing.
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45 Responses to “Dear Clusterflock: You forgot to remind me.”
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it’s only always number 1. number 2 always seems like an accident. of course, as I write that, I recognize immediately a way to think about it differently, but the things that go wrong always — rightly or wrongly — seem like a correlation to some choice I have made that can then end up tinkered with.
Deron and I are pretty much identical on this point.
For perhaps the first time, I’m with Deron and Andrew. We are in the same boolean bubble. Wow.
I’m quick to question myself when things go wrong (an act I consider essential to being a mature and aware human being.) But I can’t recall ever wondering what I’ve done right, or dwelling on what I believe I have done right. I have a fairly sizable ego, but it doesn’t present itself in that way.
But I can’t recall ever wondering what I’ve done right, or dwelling on what I believe I have done right. I have a fairly sizable ego, but it doesn’t present itself in that way.
ditto.
I wonder if I think or believe — or it is factual — that what goes right in our lives, beyond the accidental, is simply an accumulation of paying attention and altering the things that have gone wrong so that our actions shift in a meaningful way.
Meaning, the things that go right are a byproduct of the attention spent on the things that have gone wrong, and appropriate shifts in our future actions.
I can think of one time I find myself dwelling on what I believe I did right. It is a story in a half, but I diffused a very awkward situation in college by directly confronting the parities involved. It was uncomfortable and unpleasant. We are all good friends now because of it.
I wish I did that more. So, in effect, I reflect on what I did right because I continually approach these things wrongly.
this discussion reminds me of the 10,000 hours concept — the idea that mastery in a subject or area requires an approximate 10,000 hours or ten years of devoted interaction. this idea is heartening to me, it allows for (the very real, I believe) possibility that passion / love / interest combined with commitment, devotion, and persistence can allow anyone to achieve excellence in an area suited to their disposition. I see this in the development of Renner’s drawings, his commitment to the process and the craft, his love and passion evident in the prolonged devotion required to reach a certain level of accomplishment. I hope to see that in the photos that I take, or in my writing, or filmmaking, in my blogging, in my ability to capture the vague realities of being human in a way that is meaningful to me. And I definitely see it in Barry or Wil or Elizabeth or Phil or Daryl’s commitments to their crafts. That devotion is inspiring to me, and ultimately, to me at least, is the only thing that supplies real, tangible meaning to my life. I think this gets to the heart of how I feel about Dave’s question, and reminds me of a conversation Daryl and Andrew and I had at the clusterflock get together, about the process of becoming a writer, about going out every day, learning something new, contradicting that information the next, developing an accumulation of those contradictions until they make some sort of larger sense.
I would ditto all y’all so far. I expect most readers might ditto all of us, maybe? The thought occurs that Dave’s questions imply an internal locus of control. Only inward speculators would even ask the question. Externally controlled people would more likely pose, “When things go wrong in my life, it’s all your fault.”
What Deron says about positive events resulting from a cumulative series of actions rings true to me.
However, it often seems to me that a single misstep can bring on the apocalypse.
Doubtless my perception is distorted.
I recently discovered, Sheila, that an apocalypse is not the end of the world.
Andrew
I just learned that too. Did you see the movie “Horsemen,” just out on DVD, last weekend?
It wasn’t the worst stinker in the world, but it was no Apocalypse Now.
No, indeed, Andrew. It certainly need not be, especially if it’s in the apokaluptô sense.
No, I haven’t, Rick. That one must have floated under my radar.
I used to think that most people’s actions were guided by principles of some sort. As I’ve aged, though, I’ve come to recognize that many people essentially spend their lives flailing about, as if everything is a simple matter of cause and effect, some kind of game to try to satisfy desires without getting hurt. They often seem perplexed that bad things happen, believing that they are happening to them rather than because of them. It’s often not a matter of intelligence, but one of simple insight–it has to occur to someone to live an examined life, and that light bulb just doesn’t seem to go off for some people. I can hardly imagine the difficulty of living that way.
I tend to assume an internal locus of control for negative events (i.e. I agree strongly with #1) but an external locus of control for positive events (agree less strongly with #2). I need to apologize and compensate when something bad happens, because I obviously caused it. However, when something good happens it is a team effort or the result of some mysterious benefactor.
I guess that sums up my low self esteem. Or… I don’t know. Sometimes I get causation reversed.
Dave
In what interactions I’ve had with you, I would never have guessed you hold a low self-esteem. You seem perfectly confident and able. Just now, it seems you may be in a low moment. Who knows what brings such feelings to us at times. (If it helps, I hold my own self-same feelings of such from time to time.) My external locus for positive events exhibits in the world by my saying, “How did I get so lucky to have this or that good thing happen in my life?” I’m pretty sure it isn’t luck. But somehow, the belief good things can be drawn toward one by one’s choices. It may be also allowing a certain willingness to allow those around me to be who they are in any moment. A willingness to allow the bad with the good. (And knowing I may have to pass on what may be offered by another.)
Sweet Dave, I don’t know. I don’t know anything for sure. I’m just saying.
Only inward speculators would even ask the question. Externally controlled people would more likely pose, “When things go wrong in my life, it’s all your fault.”
I see this question exactly this way.
It’s often not a matter of intelligence, but one of simple insight–it has to occur to someone to live an examined life, and that light bulb just doesn’t seem to go off for some people.
This reminds me of Renner’s thoughtful response to a previous question I asked about education.
As for how Dave sees the world — and thus, answers this question — I completely identify with it. I often joke that when a tree falls in a forest, I immediately think it’s my fault. And, separately, when good happens in my life, it loses its value — because, if it could happen [to/by/with] me, it clearly isn’t that awesome.
Speaking of 10,000 hours, this is something I have been doggedly working to change for a long time now. I still catch myself sometimes. It’s taken me years to recognize that cycling across a country alone at 21 years-old isn’t something just anyone can do.*
* Even typing that out and choosing to push this “Submit Comment” button makes me feel like I’m a self-important prick. So …there’s work to be done.
Thanks for pushing the button, Kelsey. I can’t help how you feel. You just keep on being a “self-important prick” all the time. Y’hear? Go ahead and work on it. The world needs, we need, I need more just like you.
Rick. You. That. Right there. That’s clusterflock to me. Next time someone asks me what this is, I’ll point them straight to you.
Thank you. Thanks all y’all for these brilliant conversations.
I’ve battled for a long time to come to the simple epiphany that I possess all the tools for my success.
I’m now battling to realise that the implement of the hitherto lack thereof, is nothing more than myself.
Once I have both of these thoughts held in my mind at once, and can rest at peace with them, the first thought may prove useful.
I am my own roadblock, too, Dog.
Rick, it’s a funny issue. To see me in person most people wouldn’t guess it. I guess I’m the right combination of ironic and self-deprecating that it comes off as confident? In fact, I think I’m probably more often perceived as cocky than nervous. The truth of the matter is probably more visible when I’m tired and introspective.
Dave, let’s snuggle.
I have a friend that recently said to me “Katie, you are so lucky to live where you live in the house you live in. You should thank Jesus everyday.” It stopped me in my tracks. I tried to explained that neither luck nor Jesus had anything to do with it. Yes, my husband and I live in a great neighborhood in the best school district in TN. Yes, we feel very fortunate. However, we both busted our asses to get here. Working full time, going to school at night , and (for my husband) raising a son as a single father for 4 years.
Yes, this is the South where Baby Jesus reigns supreme and folks regularly cite the hand of God as the reason for circumstances, outcomes and daily occurrences. However, I just can’t seem to get over some people in our society that lay all of the good on Jesus and all of the bad on “going against His Word”. My husband says that God/Jesus/Religion was the best scapegoat ever invented. I tend to agree with him.
Ok…I’m done rambling.
Weird. I read this thread earlier today and there was a comment by Mike Dougan, which seems to have disappeared now. Did I imagine it?
Lucy
I saw a Dougan comment over on the “who do you miss” thread, I think.
no. I deleted it.
Really? Why?
Dougan’s comments range from neutral to mean or obnoxious. usually I give him the benefit of the doubt. today, not so much.
Ok, fair enough on that, I am not familiar with him. But I didn’t see anything mean or obnoxious in this particular comment. If anything, I thought it was one of the more interesting responses to the question posed.
perhaps I deleted the wrong one. There were five or six comments I had to evaluate, and frankly, I’m tired of having to evaluate him.
Well, what’s his vintage of meanness? Does he make personal jibes at people? Is he provocative? I think I’ve seen his name around here before but I really have no sense of his temperament.
Excuse me for inserting myself into this conversation, but Lucy darlin’, you have no idea how many people attempt to post things here that are problematic–and that have caused people a good deal of angst. Deron bears the brunt of evaluating the comments, and I, for one, am grateful to him for it.
I tend to blame me for the bad things in my life, mostly because I see them as perhaps bad choices, turns left when it should have been right, putting myself in the wrong situation. Equally I try and see any good fortune as my choices as well – I’ll be honest there have been more bad ones than good ones, but, that is mostly because I am a lazy SOB whose main enemy is self motivation.
However, I do exclaim what have a done wrong! every time I check a lottery ticket and it’s a loser. Of course, I know exactly what I did wrong, I chose the wrong bloody numbers.
interesting you used the word vintage. this is a bit like describing wine. one comment I deleted made assumptions about the intentions of the person who made the post then set off on a rambling diatribe against an entire nation of people…. I think I’m tired of talking about Dougan, though. I hope you won’t take offense. my head is very elsewhere today. I am up to here with dealing with my insurance company and an out of network surgeon. but no, none of that was imperative on my decisions about the comments.
Well yes of course, and it must be incredibly tedious to have to do that all the time. I suppose this is just not large enough of a community, or with sufficient numbers of moderators, to be able to tolerate trollers who occasionally say something interesting. It’s a tricky topic. Mostly the people who come around here are not idiots, but if the argument is true and not just idiotism, then I tend to prefer a climate of diverse, challenging opinion.
It’s a tricky topic, I think there may be a point at which you have to decide that you value your quality of life more than the largesse of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and just suck that up and bar particular people altogether.
oh, I’ve done that.
Mostly the people who come around here are not idiots, but if the argument is true and not just idiotism, then I tend to prefer a climate of diverse, challenging opinion.
I couldn’t agree more. and to the best of my ability, this is the editorial stance I endeavor to achieve.
Katie–we get that “Blessed” stuff here in TX too. The same people who think one can’t possibly have strong moral convictions without religion also believe that all good results fall from heaven. I had a friend once who went unannounced to a neighbor’s house to help him replace a garage roof blown off in a storm. “Jesus sent you,” the man said–to which my friend responded: “Great–I’ll just let Jesus put the shingles back on.”
I haven’t said it recently, but–damn, Thank you, Deron. The lives of many people are improved by the many things you initiate, create, and tend to behind the scenes. My hat’s off to you my friend (and I actually wear a hat).
A rather lovely host.
thank you, both.
And, Dave, when you and Deron are finished snuggling, will you please put your head back in my lap?
This reminds me of my motto which is forgotten every moment, but this is why you must be good to people, since everyone is dealing with some secret problems you don’t know of yet, and may never know of.
Dave, I couldn’t even begin to answer your question. When things go wrong I dont notice since that seems normal. When things go right, I am scared because I know it will end.
Daryl– Yep. I was born and raised in TX (Amarillo, to be exact) and graduated from TCU. Although I haven’t been back in years, I remember how much “folks love them some religion” ’round those parts.
*Although I don’t particularly miss the political climate, I do miss the wide open spaces and the grit you can feel in between your teeth after a good dust storm.