July 7, 2010
Bible apps
The Apple Store now offers a plethora of iPhone applications for Christians who want to “fight back against what they view as a new strain of strident atheism.”
As one developer describes the need for such apps:
Sean McDowell, the editor of “Fast Facts” and some textbooks for Bible students, said he has become increasingly aware of a skill gap between believers and nonbelievers, who he feels tend to be instinctively more savvy at arguing. “Christians who believe, but cannot explain why they believe, become ‘Bible-thumpers’ who seem dogmatic and insecure about their convictions,” he said. “We have to deal with that.”
Of course, there’s also a few apps available for those goddamned, good-for-nothing atheists, too.
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Oh, I read this! And I thought, “So this is what debate — or even conversation — has come down to.” One pat answer trumped by another pat answer ad nauseum.
Well, that’s nothing new. It existed long before the current technology.
Ain’t that sad? You expressed that more eloquently than I ever could, Sheila.
Well, thanks (she said, ruefully). Don’t know how eloquent I am, but when I read that article, I just thought, “How pathetic.”
But I don’t think it’s much different from what most people have been doing for ages. Or from what I remember of schoolyard theological discussions (of which I have much experience, having been the only vocal atheist in my grade school)!
Memorized bits fit right in with the typical Christian religious training of children. Sadly, as noted in the comments, this does little to foster the creative side of actual argument. In this sense it seems more useful to those who have the insight to see religious absurdity for what it is without needing to memorize chapter and verse. It’s their reference book, after all, so who can fault others for posing direct questions about precisely cited passages? Of course they are fine with picking and choosing verses that fit their aims, while regarding the troublesome verses as irrelevant or mysteriously not yet “revealed” to us. In the end that’s the real problem with attempting to argue with a Christian: they will engage in the appearance of argument when they feel they have an advantage, but when backed into a corner they will always slide over to the side of their belief that insulates them from the demands of reason (and actual argument).
I’m so glad we have yet another tool to aid us in having vapid arguments and protect us from the scary proposition of having a conversation.
Now where’d my SarcMark go?
Nice how they help distract us from how we all exist amongst uncertainty too.
Playing the absurdist side of the Bible game was both a gift and a perverse pleasure of my ex-. He could — and would — play knock-knock with any Bible-thumper who came a-thumpin’ on our door. Though his family were atheists, he’d attended a Lutheran grade school for a couple of years, plus he’d read widely and had a wicked good memory.
He was hell-and-Jesus with door-knocking hucksters of Christianity.
But you come right down to it, it all struck me as pretty much of a parlor trick.
Or a vaudeville routine.
“Who’s on first?”
I read this one morning in Dallas while Deron or Amy was in the shower. My initial reaction was, Well, whatever arms an atheist. But now I hear you, Sheila. As if we need more debate powered only by talking points.
Sheila–I know what you mean about the Badda-Bing of athiest argument, but in this case there are real political consequences when a culturally approved religion takes a calculated approach to public policy. As I have mentioned before, I’m happy as a clam for anybody to believe whatever brings comfort or happiness–so long as they don’t expect me to hold their views as a matter of common sense. We are speaking here of a common sense that is unrecognized convention, and we all know what happens when many people decide that every problem is really not so difficult to solve, if one will simply look to the Bible for word of what prophets 2,000 years ago would have done about oil spills. I think it is good for comfortable Christians to see that some people are not actually afraid of the things they have been trained to fear, and that although humans are weak and often corrupt, more good has been done for all by humans who actually try to solve problems and limit suffering than by those who consult oracles, throw virgins onto sharpened stakes, burn heretics, and complain that the invention of the lightening rod must be unChristian because it interfers with God’s ability to use lightening as a tool to chastize sinners.
Hey, thanks, Kelsey. As I told a now-virtuallyforgotten and departed flocker back in the wayback days, I’m down with the fictional Hadrian (as Margaret Yourcenar gave him voice) in believing that Christianity is a religion for children and slaves.
I’ll never give in to a deathbed conversion.
But I’ve seen atheists descend to a childish “did, too — did not” level of discourse that irks me as much as the Christian equivalent does, and that is what bugs me about Bible-arg apps.
Oh, Daryl, I know I live a sheltered life. Like some flockers (and friends) who live outside the US, I often fall prey to an apolitical view of soi-disant theological discussions. This is either naive or forgetful, I recognize. Worst of all — ahistorical. You can’t separate religion from politics and history.
Perhaps my wish that we could is just the little streak of idealism in me.
P.S. Here is a case in point–an argument I have had with Christians who look to the Old Testament for ammunition when they wish to assert that homosexuality is an “abomination.” I have heard many times from such Christians, when arguing in a different realm of concern, that the “New Covenant” proclaimed by Jesus (citation needed) superseded Old Testament law by producing a new, more simplified law–that of the one requirement to “accept” Jesus as Lord. But the Old Testament is still referred to as a source of authority. This might make sense if it were being referred to as a general guide for behavior–but it is looked at by fundamentalists as True in a word for word way, and the freedom to not accept some of its requirements is in place at the same time that an imperative to accept some of its requirements is still in place. This is why we get the vast acceptance of a view of homosexuality as an “abomination,” while we see Christians eating shellfish and pork all the time, even as they are wearing garments woven of two kinds of fabrics. They don’t see selling a daughter into prostitution as an option, but preventing homosexuals from even being members of some churches is regarded as “approved and supported by Scripture.” Note that I have not cited chapter and verse here–but if I were to argue these points with a self-righteous Christian I certainly would.
Sorry Sheila–I type slowly, so much has often been said by the time I spool it all out! I do know what you mean about how tiring it is to see auto-pilot arguments–whatever the source and whatever the cause.
Having brought up religion and politics, I kinda wish that Lucy were not in London right now and that she could bring her Irish perspective to bear.
Actually, I’m glad Lucy is in London and wish I were gallivanting with her.
It’s cool, Daryl. The delay is actually kinda fine.
Like I said ages ago, you’re a guy I’d want in my foxhole.
Uruguay.
P.S. I type really fast (especially for a splint-fingered woman), but I think real slow!
The talking points outlined on both sides of the argument are precisely the reason I don’t talk theology with people anymore.
On a related note, the Olive Bible iPhone app’s Greek and Hebrew parsing are fucking incredible.
I kinda figured, Andrew.
Download the new iVatican!
iVatican texts you a reminder of what a sin-soaked blasphemer you are, in case your self-esteem becomes dangerously high. Messages like, “Not that you deserve it, but Jesus does care for you—as much as he can”, “You did a terrible job witnessing to those heretics on the train; you have failed at being a soldier of the Lord!”, and “Your vagina is the mouth of Satan!” will help you remember to remain both sanctimonious and drenched in guilt at all times!
Also: “Christianity is a religion for children and slaves.” Shelia, you are my quote-hero.
“Your vagina is the mouth of Satan!” Is this true? Have I been in league with the devil all these years?