July 20, 2010
Josh wondered,
Hmm. This is one of those moments where I feel like there needs to be an examination of whether these sorts of posts are worth the inevitable weariness that results (and I’m speaking more about weariness within Clusterflock itself rather than between Flockers and random commenters).
I don’t believe that it is “these sorts of posts” that work people up and sometimes ignite sparks under the hood. I sure hope not, for I’d hate to see ‘flockers seize up for fear of posting something incendiary.
As often as not, it seems to me there’s a secondary drama unfolding in tandem with certain series of heated comments. Whatsis knows, I’ve been party to such dramas over my four-plus years of participation in this grand experiment.
Does this thought strike a chord with anyone? I ask in part from laziness, as it’s still early on in my day and I need more stimulants. But I’d also really like to hear from a few others before offering my own muddled interpretation of what might be happening when a post appears to trigger frustrated and possibly hurt feelings among ‘flockers themselves.
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My view is that everything that happens on this site is worth it. The only way for clusterflock to remain vibrant and honest is for flockers to be willing to be open and take some risks. Yes, sometimes people’s feelings get hurt, and, yes, sometimes people leave or get asked to leave or are forced to leave. This isn’t kindergarten.
I would also like to say that, if I had last night to do over again, I would have been in the middle of the discussion that generated this question rather than drinking and crying over the Donner party.
I think people who know how to laugh (and laugh at themselves), and who also have a few spikes sticking out here and there are the most interesting of people, and we are not here to buff down all the spikes. In fact, we are in the business of sharpening, and grit is required for that to happen. I remember a time in my undergraduate days when I read an essay by a literary critic, concerning art and politics, that infuriated me. I set out to write a response to the essay and in the process I realized that I was actually grateful for the critic’s articulate presentation of his views because they prompted my own urge to confront them–with hopes of being equally articulate in my writing. I realized that matters of personality shouldn’t be the focus of real debate–that the urge to achieve a greater clarity of understanding is helped by those who agree and disagree with operational perspectives. There are, though, many people who present only the trappings of debate. They don’t think their views can be improved, and if they can’t bring you around they can at least hope to make you look bad in front of your friends. I don’t feel the least bit of regret about going San Jose on people who come to me with non-debate tactics, trashing the place as they move about. And I think that process of standing against such tactics actually strengthens Clusterflock.
Oh yes, say it, say it all. Please.
most of the comments last night were fairly direct. I’d be happy to make some more if anyone would like.
To clarify: Josh (and others in doubt), don’t hesitate to post. You can’t second-guess comments, as they are unpredictable, nor should you try.
I had a really good vacation y’all, but I’m a little sad I missed all the excitment. We should do it again sometime.
But after I finish all these mid-year performance review…ok?
Deron, I like you direct. Daryl, I like you ruminative. I also like you both any other way you decide to be. I learn something from everyone I meet.
I did wake up this morning, though, wondering if I should be less tolerant, patient, and open with people. Fact is, my feelings on the recent VP candidate map well to Deron’s, but I have this low-level anxiety that I’ll suffer through eight years trying to figure out what I missed in a substantial portion of the electorate. That’s where I was coming from.
Joseph, I think history has an answer for you.
I’d like to refudiate* the use of the term “Ground Zero Mosque”. Unless, of course, the plan is to actually build it on Ground Zero and not two blocks away.
*Is that the correct usage?
Yes, Deron, I believe recent history has a very good answer for us. I cannot abide the thought of doing that again.
Well, I’m not that good with words, but, I did read ALL of last night’s thread with interest. Part of what I love about here is the frank exchange of views, the honesty if you like. It is something I know that I struggle with, the telling people what I really feel and think. It is the part of me that I dislike the most.
Daryl, your words last night and in this thread, nail it for me. Beautifully put. I have trouble articulating what lives in my head so I apologise for my lameness with just agreeing with others.
Phil, for what it’s worth, I’m not sure anyone in the world other than Daryl could have said what he said above. The guy has a way with words.
He also can make a noise exactly like a pigeon.
What, that cooing noise?
Doesn’t get any better than this:
I wish I had been able to articulate that as eloquently last night. It’s exactly what I was trying to say. We may differ on what trolls look like, but I think we’re aiming for pretty much the same thing.
I would be well impressed to read an intelligent defense of GOP positions, something in the form of facts –> gaps –> theory –> analysis.
There appear to be many more dove and pigeon calls than I ever imagined. I wonder how many Daryl has mastered.
Thanks, Joseph.
Sheila: the only pigeon call I can make is the one you hear when they are sitting around in the coop. It’s a kind of “ah-whoo-w”.
All I know is that the pigeon sound emerged last weekend when we found a parking space directly in front of our favorite diner. It was a delighted, elongated, rather guttural-sounding OH. I’ve made him do it about 20 times since. I believe his throat must be shaped like a pigeon.